For a substantial outside listen, try Berkeley Talks: Michael Pollan and Christof Koch talk psychedelics and consciousness, published Friday, 69 minutes 42 seconds. Science journalist Shayla Love moderates the October 13 conversation. The most interesting exchange begins with Pollan’s experience of seeming to perceive conscious plants: how should the extraordinary certainty of an experience affect what one believes afterward?
Koch takes his own altered experience seriously as a challenge to his earlier physicalism; Love presses the distinction between a feeling of knowing and evidence. Later, her account of aphantasia—understanding an apple without seeing a mental picture—makes differences between ordinary minds just as intriguing. This is a philosophy-and-experience conversation, with speculative claims to examine, not established proof of plant or machine consciousness. Selection is based on the published transcript, not listening to the audio. Episode and full transcript · Audio